ALL ABOUT LOVE: a caring conversation with Royal
Tara and Muskan talk to Royal in an unscripted dialogue addressing what love truly means, healing from trauma, polyamory, and spiritual growth... This transcript was from an audio of the conversation (and may have some discrepancies as we talk over each other). Feel free to listen along and read thru the transcript, or if you would rather, read through the highlights for some queer wisdom :) we recognize we are not perfect on this journey of love, yet talking about it freely brings us joy and healing <3
Tara (00:07):
we could just, like, some of them are more vague, but we could just like chat off of them and they'll probably like go into the other ones and we'll like, start by asking you, but then we'll give our own opinions as well. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so pretty simple. Just chatting. The first question I have is what does the action of love look like? And I have sub-questions under it, which are, is it abstract or more tangible? And also why do art artists focus so much on representing it?
Royal (00:47):
Representing love? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Mm.
Tara (00:51):
Okay. But yeah, just starting on, what does the action of love look like?
Royal (00:54):
What does the action of love look like? Honestly, my answer to that changed after I read all about love by bell hooks. <Laugh> literally, we all read it recently.
Tara (01:04):
No, I got it. I got it like a month ago and then I read it and then I was like, Muskan, you need to read this? Yeah. So we very recently read it.
Royal (01:11):
Yeah. I read it in like January and it like started off my 2022. Like this is love. Yeah. Nothing else is love. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>
Royal (01:20):
Parents did not teach us that was love. They didn't at all at all. Cause I think love acts as an action. She says in the book that you're supposed to be contributing to each other's spiritual growth. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, that's like what love is. And mm-hmm <affirmative> I think that actions, as simple as just being there or giving you can give whatever you, you have, it can be giving words you can give to gifts. You can give food. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I think that love is love as an action is whatever you, as an individual feel is something that I'm trying to see how to explain this. Something that,
Royal (02:22):
That, that lifts up the people that mm-hmm <affirmative> you claim that love that you love and claim that you love that I feel like that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. I think everything should be from a place of upliftment mm-hmm <affirmative> and sometimes upliftment means having uncomfortable conversations. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> it means saying things that may hurt your love one's feelings. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But if it's with the intention of upliftment at the end of the day, nine times outta 10 is for the betterment of the relationship or the relationships. If you're talking, you know, poly ever mm-hmm <affirmative> agree. So yeah, I think that people think of love and think everything has to always be nice and beautiful and easy and fun.
Muskan (03:12):
That's not like realistic at all.
Royal (03:14):
It's not because as human beings, we're not just nice and easy. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and easy.
Muskan (03:20):
We all have
Royal (03:20):
Trauma. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. <Laugh> yeah.
Muskan (03:25):
Especially like the part about having hard conversations like that is literally like, yeah. Like if you love somebody, you're going to say the hard shit to them. Cuz otherwise it's actually just more like gonna just be hurtful and like kind of a fake time.
Royal (03:43):
Exactly.
Muskan (03:43):
A fake relationship if you're not talking about it, and there's always gonna be trauma, like everybody has trauma and you're always gonna trigger people. Like you could do the best at being like addressing your own trauma, but like we're all human. Like you said, like mm-hmm <affirmative> harm is always going to like surface in some way or another
Royal (04:03):
Mm-Hmm
Tara (04:03):
<Affirmative> yeah. I feel like the, like the action could just differ on like the type of relationships and like how people like showing love, but in terms of like, what can be like true love in a relationship, like has so much to do with like, like being honest and like true to yourself. And that just gets back to like, if you're not doing those things for yourself and like with another person or that person is like keeping you from doing that mm-hmm <affirmative> then you're not like allowed to be your authentic self. Yeah.
Royal (04:28):
That's not love
Tara (04:28):
And then that's not, that's not real either. Like you can enjoy the good times, but like if you're not doing, like, I feel like also some of the words in the book, like it's like commitment, but like not in a monogamous way. Yeah. But just being like, I agree to like show up for exactly. Never
Royal (04:44):
<Laugh> so
Tara (04:45):
Like, I agree to like show up for you consistently and like listen to you and like promise to like (have compassion), you know, like yeah. Give you those things, like as best as you can, you know? And that doesn't mean things like continue on indefinitely, but it means like we at least have enough respect to each other for each other to actually like want to hear everything. Yeah. Like including the hard stuff. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>
Muskan (05:05):
And if you're not sitting with yourself, you can't even talk about the hard shit cuz you're like, I can't be without you. So I can't tell you this hard shit
Royal (05:13):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>
Muskan (05:13):
But then
Royal (05:14):
If you're like codependent. Yeah.
Tara (05:16):
And it's like sustainability in relationships too, that it's just like, yeah. Literally like you gotta be with yourself first to be with another person to even explain yourself to them.
Royal (05:25):
Yes. You have to know yourself in order to really know how to function in relationships and how to interact with people and what your wants and needs are. And we live in a world that damn near forces you to not be your authentic self. Like you're constantly being told everything or not being honest with it. Exactly. Not to be honest with yourself, honestly, something that's put in the back burner a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. And it's to a detriment of real relationships and mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's saddening to see cuz I feel like a lot of people in this world, whether it's romantic, platonic, familial, they are not living in their full truth. And they're not being honest with each other and it leads to resentment. Secret animosities. Yeah. stress it's it leads to the relationship being toxic, something. Yeah. Toxic. And then because people aren't being honest, it's on the surface, there is a lack of awareness of the toxicity to the extent mm-hmm <affirmative> and I just don't think that's that's how a relationship lasts. Yeah.
Tara (06:29):
You know, I feel like also cuz like, like, you know, ideally someone starts off with like great familial love. That's the model for their love. And then they're able to give it to other people mm-hmm <affirmative> but because we are like now more recently realizing like we need to have this standard of love in our relationships and that's such a big priority cuz otherwise again, your relationships aren't true. All of those things, but like, because we have that history where it wasn't like that, it's also like continuing to try to build better relationships can just be like triggering or bringing up the hard feelings or insecurities even if
Royal (06:58):
We're like trigger yourself. Yeah.
Tara (07:00):
Even, even if you're like, oh I'm polyamorous and I have time for myself and I'm aware of myself, like you try to be as honest as possible. Like you're still just gonna have feelings of like being insecure or being like, this is not enough for me or whatever it is, like to each their own in a person.
Royal (07:14):
Like I don't think being healthy is having no trauma. Like not
Tara (07:17):
No. Cause then you're just, you're you're acting like, oh I, I don't have no problems. What do you mean? Not Communicating them. So like literally, you know, and I think like it's like trust that it'll get easier over time. Like if you continue to attract people who also like care about being aware and honest and showing up for you. But I feel like those, those things,
Royal (07:34):
Things you have to start bringing that within yourself to attract people like that Around you.
Tara (07:36):
And then it's like a practice too, because like when you're like newly starting relationships where you're prioritizing those things, there's a lot of things that could be triggering. Cuz you were just in a lot of shit, you know? Yes. Or it's like also even being honest, like even if you're a better place now you could still have these like insecure feelings or whatever it is. And that's why I'm like, you can only be around people who are willing to talk about those things. Like obviously sometimes you need like space, time to process. Like mm-hmm <affirmative> and also just like boundaries within each other. Like you can't hear that from someone else and take it all on. But like part of like being there for people and like letting them be their true selves is also like, oh I gotta hear it out. Like even if they're having a bad time, like what does that look like? Yes. How can I be there? And it's like actually understanding them cuz sometimes also like, I feel like with my triggers, I realize like sometimes it's not even like, oh this is gonna get resolved or this is gonna go away. It's just like admitting it's there. And like that way that other person can understand, like this is something I'm experiencing, it might not be because of you. It might not be your fault. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> like literally separating all those things. But just admitting that it's there something I feel
Muskan (08:36):
Taking the blame off of.
Tara (08:36):
It's just like, and that's all again, just being honest and like, and you have to start with being like, I'm honest with myself and I'm gonna be honest with you cuz this is affecting our relationship. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yes. As me being part of that mm-hmm <affirmative> so I feel like some of the actions I resonate with the most, for that reason is like just like honesty and like recently like commitment. But it's so interesting to like separate that word from the monogamous way. But just being like, even if I just enjoy someone and we might not be in the same physical plane forever, like a lot of times with friendships or whatever type of relationship, like,uI almost lost my train of thought <laugh> that's okay.
Royal (09:10):
You're good.
Tara (09:11):
Oh, but, oh, so even if you're not in the same like physical place, like you still wanna make that relationship sustainable in the way that you're like growing together. Yeah. And to do that, you need to like show up even if like, and again, that's also being aware of yourself, like how much can I show up for this person? Yeah. Or what kind of energy can I give? Because people might be looking for different energies, things like that. But like why you wanna be with someone no matter what the form of relationship is, if they can't agree to be like, you know, I appreciate you enough and I respect you enough that I'll like be there for you and like be honest and communicate those things, you know? And it's yeah. It's a process <laugh> yeah. I guess the other, yeah. The other part of that question was why yeah. Why do artists focus so much on representing it?
Royal (09:54):
I think artists focus so much on representing it because creation is literally just a part of who we are as human beings because it's, you know, we're, we're, God's having a human experience. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> God is the creator. I'm not religious, you know, God just spiritual, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So quote unquote, God mm-hmm <affirmative> is the creator. And I feel like when we create anything, anything, it could be a, a baby, it can be art. It can be a meal, like food. Exactly. It's operating in our true selves. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and that's the point of love to operate in our true selves. Yeah. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and I feel like art is just such an, a freeing way to express anything. And love is something that even if you're so traumatized that you don't wanna love anyone whenever again is always something that we're longing for. It's always something that you, and
Tara (10:46):
You gotta figure it out eventually. Exactly. You can't go around the world being pessimistic, being like, I don't love, love
Royal (10:51):
You. Exactly. And art is a perfect way to process that. I love processing shit, taking, not taking shit out, but releasing shit. Yeah. Through art definitely release. Yeah. That includes love. Love is like the pinnacle, like love and joy are like the two things that All negative.
Tara (11:11):
Royal (11:12):
Say all negative love. Exactly. Exactly. You can't have truly loved someone and have never experienced Grief. Not possibly grief is literally,
Tara (11:20):
I'm also like recently I've been resonating with Grief so much, but it's like, it's interesting. Like I search up a definition and it's more just like, oh, like suffering Like it literally just says suffering or like having very like negative emotions, like, because like you're hurt or something like that, but I'm just like, grief is like, I wrote, it's actually on the other page of here. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> let me see if I can find it. I wrote, I was talking about death and rebirth Scorpio things, and I've also been obsessed with idea of the lovers all hand in hand. But I literally wrote, I'm just glad this is right here in my journal. The process of grief leaves room to recognize we lost something important to us. We care. We are human and need time to recover. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yes. Yeah.
Muskan (12:01):
There's such this culture of like nonchalantness and like not caring. And I think that, or
Tara (12:06):
It's like, you hurt and then you bury it and be like, fuck it
Royal (12:11):
I don't identify like literally I'm like being, well, I care exactly a lot and I cry. Okay. And I grieve and I don't feel bad about
Tara (12:20):
It. I grief like literally when the definition is just like suffering, I'm like, yeah, but it's like suffering with purpose. Like, yes. I'm not gonna be on some like silly shit and be like, you need to know pain, you know, joy. But it's also like, it goes hand in hand that it's also like, I think grief is something where you're like, oh, I cared so deeply for this thing. Or like, you know, because hurt happens. Like realizing you're capable of hurting someone else like when you experience it to like, feel it realize it's real and there, because I'm fragile, I'm vulnerable. Like I care about someone. So it still centers back to like care. Like you care enough to feel that grief. And obviously sometimes it's like maybe more or less warranted if someone just doesn't know how to treat you and you're just being hurt. And that also is like,
Muskan (12:58):
Just abuse
Tara (12:59):
With yourself,
Royal (12:59):
That's a whole different thing. You could grieve someone and they never treated you bad ever. You know?
Tara (13:04):
Exactly. Yeah. But just even, even when it's that way, or it's also just like hurt happens, nonetheless, it's still being like, you know, I'm not gonna let this like harden me. I'm gonna let it like, realize like this is a softness in a beautiful way that it's like, oh, I was like capable of being hurt because I cared. And obviously over time you wanna place that care for yourself in better hands. Right. That like, you know, and understand hurt still gonna happen. I'm so capable. You're still capable. Like people are so scared of admitting negative emotions. And I just like, oh my goodness, love coming back to affirm myself to be like, you know, like I start with myself and I think about all the bad things I've done or things I'm not proud of. And I'm like, that's when I understand, like, you know, if I'm capable of doing that and I don't want do that again, I need to remember that I need to accept that those things happen. And then I have much more grace and empathy and understanding like the people around me are also capable of that. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so knowing that hurt or grief, like all those things like may happen then, like how do we learn to feel those things experience and like work through them and like try to be better to those people because it's just, it's always a possibility like and obviously different sources of hurt. And at the end of the day, we're not gonna be around people who continue to do that to us. But
Muskan (14:13):
Yeah, I think on the opposite, end of like what you were saying earlier about artists making a lot of art about love. Like, I think there's a lot of art about like, love that isn't like healthy too. Like that is what the heck?
Royal (14:27):
What, how did he get out?
Muskan (14:29):
<Laugh> He's so wet. First of all, gross. Yeah. Second of all. Yeah. There's a lot of art about love that's like about obsession. That's about like I'm giving my all to you, like exception we're together for life. Like I'm meant for you. Like things like that. Even spiritual I've also done
Tara (14:52):
And it's like, okay, but polyamory, you can have multiple twin flames. Yeah.
Royal (14:55):
Multiple soulmates soulmates. Don't have to be just romantic
Tara (14:58):
And you can still like, appreciate the magic that brought you together or that you experienced with the person at given point in time. But seeing it as like the ultimatum or the purpose of your life and all
Royal (15:06):
The one, the one.
Tara (15:08):
Yeah. And also doing art, like expressing love in all forms. Like not just romantic love. Definitely. Yes. Also when you were talking about like art and like creation, I was also thinking of like the Emperess card and like tarot, because it's like creation nature and the mother. So obviously it has a lot to do with like mother nature and creation, but I just always like do things with nature related to my art and that also like nature makes me feel like find solace in like growing or love in itself. Like just, just the seasons or just literally seeing how plants are like resilient, things like that. Like obviously creation can happen in a lot of different ways too, but it's like literally when I think of nature and I think of love and all those things, I'm just like, it's just the power and like being strong and like being supported. Like I remember even going through my first heartbreak, which was not a love relationship at all, but when it was me going through those emotions, I was like, I always write poems and art about like, I need new soil. Like it's always about the soil and the roots and the earth, cuz I'm just like, what is best supporting me? What's helping me grow. Like literally getting back to the initial definition of love. Like
Royal (16:15):
That's wild, cause that's grow same analogy. But like at like 13 had a hole like spill about trees and yeah. Like to the trees
Tara (16:24):
And, and I come back to it,
Muskan (16:26):
Been living for way longer than us, way long. Like there's so much to
Tara (16:30):
Learn and they literally provide us support. Like whether you're climbing a tree, you're in the shade of a tree they're giving oxygen
Royal (16:36):
Their goals just be their authentic selves. And they're just, yeah. Innately, coping in a way
Tara (16:44):
And again, like their like yeah. Their ability to survive and also like sometimes support each other. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Just all the things like I can find
Royal (16:53):
Relationship. Yeah. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>
Tara (16:54):
Like I can find so much comfort in nature, like related to myself or related to my relationships. And also my relationship with nature is like a very important love relationship. Like mm-hmm <affirmative> I feel like when I give myself affirmations, it's always like art creativity, my family, which to me is like my support system. Like my friends, not biological family. Yeah. <Laugh> but whoever I consider, however, I consider my family and then literally I'm like the land, the earth nature. Yeah. I'm like, cuz let me remember. And like humble myself. And like also like even sometimes when I'm feeling something interpersonally, I like look around me at nature and I'm just like, oh, there are all these things going on. Like so many systems happening around me. Maybe it's just the experience of drugs talking too, but I'm just like, you know, when you see the way like plants grow and they have all these patterns, I'm like, wow, there's a whole world happening without us. Like we contribute to it as well. But this is like a beautiful thing that's existed for so long. They literally grow around each other. Obviously right now springs like birds and bugs, all of it. I'm just like, wow, y'all are just doing your business. Meanwhile, I'm going through something. And then I can like, don't
Royal (17:54):
Don't even give a fuck, don't even know where we're going through at all.
Tara (17:55):
Exactly. Uyeah. It's
Muskan (17:59):
Beautiful.
Tara (18:00):
Just pretty things. Okay. So that was the first question. <Laugh> but it's like a good base to get into other ones. And if other ones are short, like that's fine. This is kind of what we were already answering, but I'll ask it anyway. How does love and people relate to the larger purpose of living life?
Muskan (18:19):
Mm, because you're yeah. I feel like, like we were saying earlier, you can't go throughout your life without loving. And there's a lot of people who do yeah. Like obviously already do that because people weren't taught how to love from their parents and their parents didn't teach them how to love. So it's just like this ongoing vicious cycle. Yeah. Everything like teaches you to continue that cycle. Like when you try to like break out of that cycle, when you try to learn about all of these things, it feels like very like alienating , born against the world. Yeah. It does feel like that. And like just like, if you like even have that like foundation of that, you care about people, like, why wouldn't you want to do better? Like, why wouldn't you wanna learn how to be like better treating these people? I think people just don't have those expectations.
Tara (19:07):
And then you become a better version of yourself.
Muskan (19:08):
Exactly. Because the most love that people know that is like the truest or like the basically like is like family. They are. Yeah. And then like family just like kind of do things to each other and they forgive each other cuz they're like, we don't trust anybody else by each other. And then it's like, when you break out of that mindset, you're like, okay, like I'm able to trust people like who are the people I'm able to trust? And if I love these people, why wouldn't I want to be learning how to love them better. Exactly. And that's even just goes back to like CIS hetero normativity. Like you don't have to learn how to love somebody cuz you're just like it's oh, it's already taught it a propaganda, literally. Perfect. Like when you love a trans person, you learn step one. How to love them by seeing them, how they wanna be seen. And that's step one. That's already like a huge like breaking out of that cycle.
Tara (20:00):
Yeah. I feel like as far as like how it relates to like the larger purpose of life, like I feel this way so strongly as like a younger person and some older people do not understand this cuz they're still caught up in everything we're taught and what the world is trying to convince you. Yeah. But like I'm just like, you know, not in a pessimistic way, but in a revolutionary way, like the world is going through some shit the world could end any day. So like for sure, yeah. To live to live in the present is being like, okay, literally if I were and to accept death is like to be like, if I were to die tomorrow, like would I be happy today? Like what am I doing today to promote my happiness mm-hmm <affirmative> and to me, like I constantly come back and like reflect on the things I'm doing.
Tara (20:40):
And it's so many like simple gestures. Like there's also things I can do to like better community. And that brings me joy. But I'm also like, how are the ways I'm experiencing love currently? And that is never like focused on like a single person. Right? Like that's why, again, polyamory things. But even if like some people can't understand polyamory in terms of like, cuz I think people get too boggled down with like, oh multiple romantic partners. Like think about your friends who bring you love and how important they are to you as well. And there's still multitudes of relationships that could not even be encompassed with friends, but like it's literally like for me to live life and feel happy, like in my absolute like present right now is like related to love and just like all the like simplest ways. Like, yes, I also, I was thinking about making a question about this, that I can't like put it into specific, but thinking of the acts I like to do that, like bring me love.
Tara (21:29):
Yeah. And some of them are like maybe related to like self love or like acts of care for myself. But sometimes even just like literally doing art, making food, obviously sometimes you're making food for a person and that's like showing love. But literally me just making food is bringing more love to my life because it's letting me be more positive and me like receive these joys out of been these like actions and things I enjoy doing. And again, I think some people can equate that to self care, but I think it's like deeper than that too. Like you have love
Royal (21:56):
Self care has been like really convoluted, like the word capitalized,
Tara (21:59):
But it's not only do I like back to what we said about nature. Like not only do I have love for the living people around me. And that brings me so much joy and maybe I'm showing that through actions. Like there's also things or like activities I like find love in doing like literally being around nature, all the things we were just describing. Like I can go on a walk and think about nature and it brings me to a place of love. Yes. Like through an action. And I'm just like, that's literally, yeah. It's interesting. Cuz there's been so many things in my life that are making me think about love lately, but like mm-hmm, <affirmative> I think just like permanently or like from this point forward, like that's what I like to like center myself around. I feel like that's also like a lot about like what the book talked about was like yeah.
Tara (22:42):
How we live in a loveless world (a simple living). Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And just like, I also think in terms of like revolution, making the world better, all those things, like kind of revolutionary optimism, all those things like is centered around like love and the idea that we can like bring some healing to each other. Yes. And obviously the world shouldn't be causing us so much hurt and pain grief in the first place. That's why we have to rework the world to be centered on love and like caring about the person, the humans around us. But realizing like even with all the shit going on, like you can find like love and support around you is literally also a way to like keep going when shit is rough.
Royal (23:16):
Yeah. We have to create your own roles within this one to survive. Mm-Hmm
Tara (23:20):
<Affirmative>
Royal (23:20):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> you have to
Tara (23:22):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> the next question is how do you enjoy receiving love? Which could be a multitude of things. I was obviously, I sometimes think about like love languages, but I'm also like not just the five love languages or whatever, like there's multitudes of love languages, especially for queer people. We've also said like for neuro divergent people, like it could look different for, for each person. So I guess it's just like personally how do you enjoy receiving Love?
Muskan (23:51):
I think that,uI've always like talked and like kind of relating back to like the love language, which is touch and like I've also just been like kind of like for like,urecently in the way of like past couple of years or like year even like understanding sex as an act of love and like seeing that as like kind of like a byproduct of like trust and commitment and communication and like all of those things we talked about love because like you're not about to have good sex quote unquote, good sex. If you haven't like talked about those things. If you haven't had that like literal like Connections,
Royal (24:30):
I have no desire to even do sexual acts If those things aren't already in place, like I only have that only want to do anything of the sort. If it's from perspective of deepening the connection, the what we already have mm-hmm <affirmative>
Tara (24:43):
Not like, and that's, what's the best. Honestly. I've been thinking about that a lot, really for my sexuality cuz I'm just like, I used to be like, oh, we just need to like respect each other first and then I can be down. Right. Cause I'm like, demisexual on the, ace spectrum. And then as I'm like, as I'm realizing it and kind of like trying to put that into practice cuz I'm like discovering it. Like then I was realizing like actually I like physically intimate things to happen when I'm actually like, I do that naturally when I want to express affection for a person. Yeah. So it's coming from the source of my feelings and I think I've still had a complicated relationship with it because I'm like, okay. But sometimes you do intimate things to grow your feelings. Yeah. But I'm like, I still, like, I just know like when I like start to like, think about like physical and sexual intimacy more often, I'm just like there needs, like, it just feels most authentic to me when I'm doing it as an act of love or like expressing, you know, and love can be many things.
Tara (25:34):
People like think that' so much romantically, like the point where you don't love them. And then the point when you do it's like if they're my friend, which they better be, if I'm about to do whatever with them really like literally we love our friends. Like people have to be more comfortable with admitting they love each other. Like it doesn't have to be a big thing. Like you can figure out how to express, express it
Muskan (25:53):
People just have trauma around it. So,
Tara (25:55):
And also love can grow like love is infinite. Like it's not like you don't, you don't have it. And then you do like, obviously it could be a growing process where at one point you realize like, oh I do feel strongly for this person. Yeah. But there can be the like if you are starting a relationship with someone and you care about them and like there's that, and also time is whatever. Like time is not a, a definition of like how much you love someone. And which relationships are most important. All those things. So
Royal (26:19):
Like longevity means literally nothing mm-hmm
Tara (26:20):
<Affirmative> so just like being more comfortable with being like, okay, I love this person now. And that love can grow. It can expand. It can show up in different ways, but why are you gonna be around people that you don't feel like love with people ever even think like again, mostly like cishet shit, but like most people don't even think they love their friends that deep in that way, they feel that way after they've been friends with them for years. I it's like you wanna go socialize with these people, go out, have fun, do these random activities. Or you're only around them because of your environment. Like school friends, things like that. It's like, if they're not helping you grow, then what are you doing? And obviously I feel like happens in life. Can like bog people down to just like, oh, let me just be around these people cuz they're here in this moment. But again, knowing life may be temporary. It's like, you need to be around great people right now. Better for yourself now.
Royal (27:07):
Yeah. I think a lot of people oh for generations, but obviously we know our own generation, the most mm-hmm <affirmative> in our generation, keep the friendships super surface level mm-hmm <affirmative> and put a lot of their true intimacy, true vulnerability, true love into whatever romantic relationships they're in and it completely underestimates and dwindles the potential of friendship that they could have with one another. Yeah. And I'm like, and then
Tara (27:35):
You put all that intimacy in one person. Yes.
Royal (27:37):
And then you're asking for everything from one person mm-hmm, <affirmative> everything they can get from a whole community. You're asking one person mm-hmm <affirmative> and that's,
Tara (27:45):
And you're only being truly vulnerable with that one person, which is also why people get so hurt by romantic relationships. Exactly. You have to like practice that vulnerability with multiple people around you. Like it could be different relationships, but like you cannot only be cuz it's also putting all those acts of love into one category where it's like, oh we're intimate in this way. And now I'm going be emotionally intimate or vulnerable with you. And those things can be of value in like any relationship. Yes. it's like a side note, but I also think that way about like how even obviously people like define their relationships and sexuality and all those things based on themselves. But I've thought of that too, because I was like reading someone's experience who is like ace and aromantic. And then so for them, like they just have friendships and there's like a multitude of things that could happen in those friendships, including intimacy.
Tara (28:28):
So cuz you know, that looks different for anyone based on how they identify. So it's like, you know, they're like some friends, I maybe I'm more emotionally intimate, but we're never physically. And then there's other friends that maybe I like kiss or hold their hand. And that's just like what it looks like. But even accepting that there can be a range of what your friendships look like. Obviously based on that connection with a person like, or not even saying you gotta be physically intimate with all your friends, you know, it's literally based on your own, but it's still like a practice.
Royal (28:52):
You have some neurodivergent people who don't like touch
Tara (28:53):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Yeah, exactly. So it's still just a practice of like vulnerability to be like, oh what can we build together? How do we wanna express things to each other? What do you enjoy? Yes. Like literally knowing what people it's like there's so many cheesy shit people constantly say, especially cishet people, but I think it's semi pertainable to this. Like like you, you should give in the love language like that person likes receiving, you know, so realizing. Yeah, exactly. And obviously like, as it comes naturally to you, as you're comfortable doing, if it's not compatible, that's something to realize too, but it's interesting to kind of look outside of yourself and be like, oh, like who is this person? What do they need right now? And how can like I support them. Yeah. And like how do I enjoy receiving love <laugh>
Royal (29:41):
Oh yeah. I didn't answer the question yet. Yeah. It's
Tara (29:43):
OK.
Tara (29:45):
I went, yeah. I feel like I, I definitely enjoy it. Like I used to think like, oh, I like it. Like when people are interesting and we can share similar interests and like be creative together and I still really appreciate that. In my relationships we're gonna keep going and but I think more, more so now, like what I'm learning is like what I talked about earlier, like kind of the consistency that like someone can show up for me. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> because that's important when you're just having like average days to just check in with someone, but also like when you're not having a great time, like that's something I've done to like heal myself is be like, I can express this to other people and it's not a bad thing. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> like literally being more comfortable with my like negative emotions or experiences I have.
Tara (30:30):
And you know, I'm not trying to do that to like offload on someone. But if someone cares about me in any capacity, including my friends, like I've learned to like value that a lot more to be like, oh, you're there for me. And like that support can look different in a lot of different ways. I think for me it's mostly like just having my experience or like whatever I'm expressing acknowledged. Yeah. Which like, I don't even think that could be put in words in like the typical, love languages is like, it would kind of be like words of affirmation, but that's not even what I'm looking for. No, I'm just look
Royal (31:01):
Positivity, you know? But I feel like it just wants somebody who's gonna be real with you. Yes. Yes. I feel like you can't people want to avoid the negative emotions hearing from their friends and speaking to their friends, any negative emotions, any negative sentiment, negative feelings to one another hard support. Exactly. They want blind support and to me that's enabling. Yeah. And literally that's unhealthy and
Tara (31:24):
That's not growing
Royal (31:25):
Together and you're not growing. And people are a lot of people obviously, because growing is hard and growing pain is real and a process. Yeah. Yeah. and a process prefer to just not grow and just keep these relationships where they are. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> not have the negative emotions be expressed because you know, they hurt sometimes mm-hmm <affirmative> sometimes it hurts to say out loud and sometimes it hurts to hear
Tara (31:46):
Yeah. And sometimes you need to be with yourself with it for a minute too.
Royal (31:49):
That's okay. Very true. Yeah. And I definitely, really, really feel you on that, on feeling like I enjoy love that allows me to be able to be open about my negative emotions because,
Tara (32:02):
And everyone has them too.
Royal (32:03):
Exactly. It's gonna people act like they don't like you feel negatively in that situation. You bottle it up, but I can still see it. Mm-Hmm mm-hmm <affirmative> and when you know, and the other person doesn't know, it's like an Imbalance
Tara (32:14):
And as like, for me, it's like a previous spot of insecurity where like I express myself and my partners don't and kinda being exempt for my friendships, cuz my friendships have been holding it down <laugh> but like that kind of feeling, and then it has led me to create insecurities in myself that I'm too much. Or like I should deal with this by myself or like I'm, I've
Royal (32:32):
Really been told that
Tara (32:33):
I'm a problem. It's like a Scorpio sweet spot. Like don't say that to a
Royal (32:37):
SCORP it is <laugh> don't tell me I'm too much. Don't I'm okay with being intense, but exactly
Tara (32:42):
But also there's people who can handle it. There's people who can appreciate it. Exactly
Royal (32:47):
Why that's okay. Why
Tara (32:50):
Understand affirmation. So there's this one astrology person who like they wrote based on sun and mood placements. And I went back today to look at the Scorpio moon placements, which you'll also resonate with you as a Scorpio. Yeah. and one is, I'm a riot to love and be loved by. So a lot of like the affirmations where just being like, you know, it's not scary, it's not terrifying. Like I'm willing to do this with you. And like someone can appreciate those things. And then another one is love, should support the trust you have in yourself. So I feel like trust is also being honest. Like if I'm going to like open up and be vulnerable and express where I'm at, like whoever I'm around should be empowering that behavior. And like, again, not exactly affirmations in the way most people will see it, but like giving me that support to be like, yeah, you deserve to like hold space for yourself and do what feels natural, all those things. Yeah. So it's also like
Royal (33:38):
Sometimes it's you deserve to be mad right now. Mm-Hmm
Tara (33:40):
<Affirmative> yeah. Yeah. So receiving love is also just like being, like being around people who again, like help you connect to yourself. Yeah. Many things. If you wanna say anything on how you enjoy receiving, even though we've been going for it for a while, and then I'll just do one more question to finish up.
Royal (33:58):
I definitely enjoy receiving love when I'm in conversation with people and it's just like, like real connection, you know what I mean? Like mm-hmm, <affirmative> I feel like real as a yeah. As a, as a demisexual I need to have that type of back and forth with someone in order to even want to be even remotely romantic with them. Mm-hmm <affirmative> let alone sexual mm-hmm <affirmative> and I feel like if we can't communicate in a way that's compatible, it's like, what are we doing here? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and because
Tara (34:34):
Then it really just comes down to like, using, also exactly
Royal (34:38):
Like obviously we use each other a lot
Tara (34:39):
And like everyone wants different things. Like especially like sexually, physically when it comes down to those wants, but you really have to start with some basis of respect to even like, communicate like, oh are we just gonna do it for this purpose, for this purpose and whatever. Yeah.
Royal (34:54):
And I think that people oftentimes don't want to admit that incompatibility is enough for a reason to stop a relationship mm-hmm <affirmative> but it is. And especially
Tara (35:04):
Cuz you could like there's someone else who could like give you that and that doesn't even mean you're a bad person.
Royal (35:11):
No one is the bad guy. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> it's just that we are not compatible and you can interact with people who give you what you want and I can interact people, give me what I want. And neither of us have to be the villain in the situation.
Tara (35:24):
That's why it starts with like literally just being honest. Exactly. Even like, and, but also being aware of yourself enough to like recognize those feelings. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> like, that's something I've thought of recently is like, literally if you can't take the time to sit with your feelings and be where you're like, know where you're at, mm-hmm <affirmative> then you don't have the time to be in a relationship. Cause that's like a responsibility of it is to communicate it to that person.
Royal (35:44):
Yes. And I feel like people often say that you can be, you can be at any phase of your life and be loved. You don't have to be fully healed to be loved, which is true. Very true. Yeah. But you know, there are abusers out there that, that, that go from a relationship to relationship to relationship and are still being loved. They abusers. Exactly. You have, I feel like it's less like a when I, when I like take the time to be like, I'm not going to get into new things right now. It's not because I like, I feel like I don't deserve it because I'm not healed. You know what I mean? It's because I feel like if I'm gonna go into it and interact with someone, I need to be able to say that this pattern that has like fucked up this past relationship is not going to happen again. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah. You know,
Tara (36:28):
And that's why you can also, it's like, we're always gonna be on a process of healing. So that's why it's also affirming yourself to be like, oh, if I feel ready or I want to experience this with someone like letting that opportunity happen. But first you gotta be honest with yourself and be like, can I, what, what are we looking for in this relationship? Cause it's not even like back to like what happens naturally. Like sometimes things happen naturally with this someone, but that doesn't mean you just start a relationship. You have to check in with yourself and be like, what can I give this person? What am I looking for here? Like, can I uphold myself in this way? Even if we already have that connection. Yes.
Muskan (36:58):
Um and yeah, it's like, like Teyana Taylor said, love is responsibilities.
Royal (37:02):
Mm-hmm <affirmative> yes. And people don't wanna have the responsibilities. People wanna just keep or they just wanna
Tara (37:08):
Just wanna keep feeling loved. They keep wanting the attention from relationships, instead of being like also like a lot of times, obviously, sometimes there's just shit people that are just not self-aware and they're in relationships, but a lot of times it's a two-way street. Like if your relationships keep messing up, you have to think about what you're seeking out. Who are you looking for? Yeah. And that's not even taking blame in a bad way where it's like, oh, you're responsible for how these people treated you, but you also have to know like going forward. Okay. What am I changing? What is different? So I'm not receiving the same thing.
Royal (37:37):
Yeah. Cause people say like you are, you attract and at face value, it's like what mm-hmm <affirmative> but you, what you attract is reflective on. What's going well, not what you attract, what you entertain is reflective of what is going on inside of you.
Tara (37:51):
And what you're allowing at that moment also.
Royal (37:52):
Exactly. And obviously if you have a series of manipulators in your life doesn't mean like you are manipulative mm-hmm <affirmative> but it could be because you grew up with manipulators in your family and you're
Tara (38:03):
Trying to make people better.
Royal (38:04):
Yeah. And you're trying to make people, everything you made yourself, the healer and you mm-hmm <affirmative> you're constantly trying to fix people sucks. Yeah. So, you know, it doesn't have to be like, oh, you're the bad person. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> because you have a pattern of bad people in your life, but it can be like, there's a, there's a reason why. Yeah. You know, and I need to heal from mm-hmm. <Affirmative>
Tara (38:22):
Okay. Well, we'll go. You're good. <Laugh> we'll go to the last question and finish up. What does self love look like? Which we kind of touched on earlier mm-hmm <affirmative> and how do you return to give yourself love while in other relationships?
Royal (38:37):
Mm.
Muskan (38:38):
I feel like this is a new endeavor for me, but literally like having, like, it's like, we've talked about this a lot, like having check-ins with yourself sometimes I'm like, oh, like, let me have this check in one, check in with myself, like in this amount of time, but just realizing more that there just needs to be constant checkins about like consistency, consistencies. Yes. Have to commit yourself just whole that's your first relationship first.
Muskan (39:07):
You can't break up with yourself, like you can't do that yourself off literally self off mm-hmm <affirmative> literally, literally. And like it literally. Yeah. Like just responsibilities and having boundaries with yourself that, you know, like ahead of time, cuz yeah. It's easy. Like, like we were talking about like, if you feel like you're a healer, like it's easy to get caught up and like basically caught up in life in general. So like yeah. Self care, just boundaries and,
Royal (39:39):
And boundaries. I feel like boundaries is often seem like as the other people or other person should be doing this, that, and the third to affirm my boundaries, but boundaries are more from you. You have to set the boundary and you have to enforce and act upon them and obviously communicate first. And if they love you and care about you, they may adhere to the boundary. Yeah. But if they choose not to, for, for whatever reason, it's your responsibility either be like, I'm gonna step back or I'm gonna try again and communicate or I'm gonna just adjust overall. But either way boundaries are on you and boundaries is self love. And the lack of boundaries is a lack of self love. Mm-Hmm
Muskan (40:18):
<Affirmative>, it's literally demanding better for yourself. Yeah, exactly.
Tara (40:21):
You have to know yourself first to like ask for those things. Like obviously sometimes it's like maybe a triggering instance happens, then you set a boundary, but ideally it should be like, you take a minute to sit with yourself first and be like, this is where I'm at. This is what I'm comfortable with.
Royal (40:33):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and I really, I really took the time to do that in the past, like Two years. And it was like, not like, like, like you say, outside of context of getting triggered, I just was like, I need to work on myself. And I like all the way up till when I was like 19, 20 and I'm 21. Now I had no idea what my wants and needs were because I was constantly neglecting them and constantly had to
Tara (40:58):
Or trying to make them about like one another person could give you yeah. Adjusting to someone else and being like, oh, if you can give this, then that's what I
Royal (41:05):
Want. Exactly. And
Tara (41:06):
Not needing more than that too. Exactly. Like even accepting you have a lot of needs, which isn't really, even that it's just like, this is how I wanna be treated. Right. and that comes naturally when you're around better people anyway, like that's something to,
Royal (41:17):
Then you feel like a lot of needs when you're around the right people,
Tara (41:19):
Especially just again, how we're taught is to just be like malleable to other people. Yeah. So admitting that you need more from them is also realizing like, oh, this could start issues or this could like lead to an end of relationship. And that's why a lot of people don't even want to take time to like, think about their needs cuz they'd rather just start it, go into it and then deal with it later. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and that's just like, you need to know that you need to just be clear about things from the jump. Like that's, you know, and things
Royal (41:44):
That require self reflection. Mm-Hmm
Tara (41:46):
<Affirmative> just all circles back around. Yeah. About circles. Yeah.
Royal (41:59):
Self neglect? Yeah. I was gonna, yeah. When you're forced, forced to neglect yourself through childhood, for whatever reason, you know? Yeah. When you become an adult it's that's muscle memories, muscle memory to, to interact with people that you love and have them be whoever they are mm-hmm <affirmative> and some aspect might hurt you, but you're just like accept it. Yeah. You're just like, I'm just gonna adjust because I love them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and yeah. First of all, communicate, obviously someone might not know that you're hurting them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> but after you communicate it and they're still hurting you, then you have to have the question of like, is this even love in the first place mm-hmm <affirmative> and that also requires defining what love is for you, which as we said, bell hooks helped with that <laugh> and that takes a lot of self-reflection and a lot of people are not trying to do that. Especially if that means being alone, a lot of people would prefer to suffer with someone else than be alone. And I don't know, I, I feel like I would rather be alone than be in the wrong company. The wrong company will fuck you up way faster than, than loneliness. And sometimes solitude is needed in order to understand like who the fuck you really are when you spent all this X amount of time being someone you were in order to stay in such and such relationship.
Tara (43:24):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah. I'm like feeling the need to think about nature again. And it's just like some cheesy saying like, people talk about too, but it's like, okay, if you're looking at yourself like a plant and that plant is not doing good, it's wiltering. You're not taking the time, attention care to like do it. How are you gonna go take care of another plant or help other people grow? Or like you're literally helping them grow while you continue to
Royal (43:45):
Dwindle. Yeah. And you're constantly draining.
Tara (43:48):
And that's why it's also literally like love is like that vision of like, it's like multiple flowers, blooming, like, like the growth, you know? And it doesn't have to happen at the same time. Sometimes one person might need help with their growth and then later they help you with your growth. But just realizing it's like reciprocal, it all comes around and you're also not helping someone else grow at the expense of your own. Yeah.
Tara (44:08):
You literally have to take the time to be like, how am I doing? Look at that. And then yeah, it's literally like from the source of your own love, other loves can grow.
Royal (44:18):
Right. Cause literally at one point in my life, not super recently, but relatively recent, we know past couple years, mm-hmm <affirmative> I like felt super drained and super low. And I didn't understand why, like why do I feel this way? Why do I feel so stuck? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> why do I feel so badly? And, and this was like, after I did a lot of like self work. So it was like, I'm not insecure about myself anymore. So it's not that I don't have this trauma anymore. So it's not that. And I have to look at my environment and be like, you are not getting what you need from this environment at all. And just like a plant mm-hmm <affirmative> you're dwindling and you are so focused on other people, you wouldn't even see that your flowers are wilting and wilting and wilting and wilting until you get to the point where it's, where it's shriveled up mm-hmm <affirmative> and you're like, oh shit, I need help to help to regrow this. And you have to face the fact that the environment is not doing that for you. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so you have to put your plant in a different soil,
Tara (45:18):
Literally <laugh> yeah. Yeah. And also like literally thinking about plants also like to affirm yourself, like even if you start to dwindle, not do so great, like literally plants are resilient. They come back, they return like in the period of spring, like
Royal (45:33):
After winter and everything was all dead. Like that tree probably had zero leaves on it that
Tara (45:38):
Like it comes back in returns. It's also like trust that you're gonna be able to do that. Like it's still the work and process of being like having to make a change So something happens. But yeah, freedom.
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